50 Lincoln Best – Taxonomy with The Oregon Bee Atlas

Speaker 1: From the Oregon State University Extension Service, this is Pollination, a podcast that tells the stories of researchers, land managers, and concerned citizens making bold strides to improve the health of pollinators.

I'm your host, Dr. Adoni Melopoulos, assistant professor in pollinator health in the Department of Horticulture. With your listeners this week, I'm really pleased to be introducing a guest who I hope will be regular on the show, Lincoln Best. Now, Lincoln is the lead taxonomist with the New Oregon Bee Atlas. And as you're going to hear in this episode, he's obsessed with natural history, the little things, and designing plant communities to support biodiversity. In his career, Lincoln has seen a lot of bees, from Haida Gwai in British Columbia to Tasmania, from Baja California to Taiwan. Lincoln is the kind of guy who, if you ask him, what makes you happy?

What's the most exciting thing for you? He'd say something like observing four millimeter native bees on their floral hosts in arid habitats. So in this episode, Lincoln is going to lay down his manifesto for native bees and plant communities, which is really exciting, but also drop some tips for volunteers in the Oregon Bee Atlas, how their observations can contribute to creating and designing landscapes that can really support and ensure that we have this rich endowment of native bees in Oregon. I'm here. I'm really pleased that this episode, too. Welcome to Oregon, Lincoln Best. Welcome to Polynation, Lincoln.

Speaker 2: Thanks, Adoni. I'm super excited to be in Oregon.

Speaker 1: Now, I know lots of people who are involved in the Oregon Bee Atlas. No link. He's been participating in some of our conversations with their volunteers. But a lot of people want to know who you are and, you know, what you're doing with the Atlas. Tell us a little bit about who you are and also maybe what you were doing this week. All right.

Speaker 2: Well, I am a Canadian from Calgary. I've been living in Calgary for six years.

Speaker 1: Do Calgarians. OK, yeah. I was born and raised in Calgary. The last five years. And, you know, I've been studying the biodiversity of bees and botany and other subjects in Western Canada since I've been an adult.

Speaker 2: And my main focuses have been primarily natural history, some genetic work and a growing interest and research focus is trying to understand how we can apply high resolution biodiversity data into restoration work.

Speaker 1: Because I think the more about the high resolution biodiversity data.

Speaker 2: What does that mean? Interestoration work. So it's it's my thoughts that and certainly others that a lot of our environmental issues are landscape issues. And so in order to, you know, have a healthy landscape, we need to know how to manage places and then also restore them. And I think the frame of reference is related to biodiversity. We want our landscapes to be biodiverse, you know, for their so we sustain ecosystem function and sustain and sustainability and resilience. And so we can apply high resolution biodiversity data into how we design restoration projects.

Speaker 1: So it means like knowing like in very kind of in this little area, there's this plant community and these bees. Is that what the high resolution?

Speaker 2: Something like that. And obviously, a great part of my focus are the bees, but it's not just bees. Bees aren't the most important or only part of our landscape. So what we can do is and we in order to restore large tracts of land, it has to be economical.

So we have to figure out how to do this efficiently and economically. And so what we need to do is identify what suites of plants in a plant community design are the most important. And so it's easy to provide, for example, with bees to provide floral resources for generalists because they'll visit many things.

Speaker 1: The great things are bees. Bees that visit a lot of different parts.

Speaker 2: That's right. And so but in order to support as much biodiversity as possible, we need to cater to specialized species and still using the example of bees. There are lots of specific plants that attract a large number of specialized species. You know, bees that will only visit one species of plant or one genus of plant. But those those same plants will also provide for generalists. And so if we can identify using some sort of, you know, optimization modeling, we can identify for particular eco types, you know, what those top five plants are, what the top 10 are. So we know those critical things that need to go into those plant community designs.

Speaker 1: No, I got it. OK, so you've been busy in Canada kind of cracking this up nut and then we snatched you with an aerial net. We bound you at the border and we got you and then we pulled you down here to Corvallis to work on Oregon. Yeah, let's maybe just like we're going to have you back on the show as our taxonomous residents at the pollination. But tell us a little bit about what you're doing and what you've just been doing like before I drag you up to my office.

Speaker 2: So Oregon is a great place to study bees. It's an incredibly diverse fauna. It's moderately well known. And, you know, from a Canadian perspective, what a great place to come and work and hone your skills and so on. So I am I suppose I'm the taxonomous for the Oregon Bee Project or Oregon Bee Atlas.

Speaker 1: You haven't seen that. The badge is like a tape to the back of your shirt.

Speaker 2: Oh, you got me. So what I've been doing, I've been here, I've been down here for a couple of weeks. And so I've been working through the mega Kielode family of bees, which are generally the leaf cutting type bees and curating the Oregon State Arthropod collection of that bee family, which is about there's about 20 to 25 drawers, entomological drawers of holdings. There's material in there from all over the world.

Speaker 1: Obviously, or it's kind of like the size of like a board game. Maybe you were right.

Speaker 2: And one drawer can hold three to 500 bee specimens. And so obviously the collections holdings are heavy on the Pacific Northwest and also California, just due to the people and the collectors that have been active in this in at OSU even for the last 50 plus years. And we have a lot of really interesting older material stuff from the 30s in some of these old systematists that really provided the groundwork for phylogenetics and taxonomy of native bees in North America. So there's really interesting, cool stuff in the OSAC collection recently, because I've now curated the entire mega Kielode holdings to the generic level. Now I'm pulling the genera out one by one and identifying all those two species. So this week I started on the genus Ashmediella, which are osmeine bees that are related to mason bees. But and they are...

Speaker 1: We're going to stop osmeine. What does that mean?

Speaker 2: So the osmeines are bees in the tribe osmeine. And within the osmeine, we have osmia, which are the mason bees that we all know and love. But we also have little resin bees, like Heriades.

We have Ashmediella, which is, I think, technically a leaf cutter bee because they make their nests out of masticated leaf pulp quite often. And other... Oh, let's see. What else is an osmeine?

Kielostoma, which is a skinny looking... I don't know, osmeotite bee. So I've been working through the genus Ashmediella. We have about a dozen species recorded for the state. And in our holdings at OSAC, we have maybe just over 20 species represented. So a lot of that material has come from also California, Arizona, New Mexico, and a small number from Mexico. Which... And that represents most of the Ashmediella species of the world because they're a primarily Western North American group.

Speaker 1: Oh, there? Yeah. OK, so your job, what you've been up to right now is kind of like Consolidating. So there's some of these in some places you're kind of bringing them together and then grouping them because they may have not been grouped previously. That's right. Got you. Yeah.

Speaker 2: And yeah, it's curatorial work. It's museum curatorial work. And so actually the first thing I did when I arrived was I went through a hundred drawers of miscellaneous hymenoptera. So just there's a hundred drawers of bees, ants, and wasps. Not too many ants. I pulled out all of the bees and separated out all the bees, which was ended up being nine drawers of bumblebees. So I stuck those in the bumblebee section.

And then I managed to pull out three additional drawers of the family mega keelidae, which is what I'm focusing on right now. It's just curatorial work. And I guess... Organization.

Speaker 1: OK, so looping back to what you were talking about earlier. You know, this seems like a very nerdy activity, but you also talked about... I can't remember the...

Speaker 2: High resolution biodiversity data.

Speaker 1: Does this connect at all to what you're doing right now?

Speaker 2: Yes, sure it does. So my task right now is to identify all the mega keelidae family bees to species. And then we will digitize and capture the data for each individual bee so that it can be displayed on the Oregon bee atlas.

Speaker 1: And so on a map, there'll be a map with the stuff that's in the drawer. You'll say, oh, it was out of McMinnville or something.

Speaker 2: That's right. And so yeah. So one of the interesting things as I work through all this material is I get to see all the data, the raw data and apply names to the place and the date that this particular bee specimen was captured on, which gives me a really good idea of, for example, looking at the genus Ashmediella, which is the current one I'm working on, is when are these bees active and they're active around the third week of June? For those specimens that have good floral records on them, visitation records or which flower the bee was captured from, then we can see for the different species, because this genus does contain lots of floral specialists. We see that these bees preferentially visit plants in the pea family that have small flowers, things like astragalus, which is milk, vetches or locoweed, as well as salvia or facility scorpion weed. So it's really interesting for someone like me that loves to hunt for flower populations and look for these strange bees to be able to get that data right out of the collection.

Speaker 1: Well, I imagine after time, after it's all aggregated together, you're kind of goal of economically providing real economic, feasible restoration programs. This will really help guide that kind of work.

Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely. It's those ecological associations that we need in order to help our decision making process and determining how we're going to design a suite of native plants to support as many species as possible.

Speaker 1: Well, we'll talk about that in a second. Let's do it right now. Tell us a little bit about some of the cool projects you're involved in in Canada. So I know you've got a lot going on, not just for the Atlas, but there's tons of things you're doing.

Speaker 2: Yeah, there's lots going on. So like Adoni mentioned, I've been in Calgary for some time, working at University of Calgary with a multidisciplinary research group investigating landscape level effects of large scale agriculture on native bead biodiversity and abundance.

Speaker 1: We've got up in southern Alberta, we've got big tracts of flowering plants that come into the landscape and then they just like canola.

Speaker 2: That's right. Yeah. It's a mass blooming monoculture. And from a research perspective, we have a great opportunity in Alberta due to the massive size of our fields. You know, it's difficult to measure things in the field and then be able to show a strong effect using statistics.

But having a giant field, we know the impacts are much greater. And so this kind of research has been going on in Western Europe for some time, but their fields are very small in comparison. And also they're all irregular shapes, most often they're pie shaped. Whereas our fields in Alberta can be kilometers by kilometers square, like thousands and thousands or tens of thousands of hectares.

And so we expect that the impacts on, you know, multi-thousand hectare canola field is going to have a dramatic and much more easily measured impact on surrounding native pollinator communities.

Speaker 1: And this is work, it worked being done by really talented special colleges, Paul Galpern.

Speaker 2: Yeah, Paul Galpern and Ralph Carter at the University of Calgary. I've been doing a great job. And of course, all of their graduate students doing the dirty work.

Speaker 1: We had that, we've had at least one on here, Sarah Johnson, who came out of that lab.

Speaker 2: Yes, right. Sarah Johnson is a great bumblebee ecologist involved in lots of projects. So that's one thing, one, one, one task. Another thing in just in this is working with the city of Calgary, with the roads department and parks department on designing restoration for biodiversity. And of course, the focus is on pollinators. However, we want to encourage as much biodiversity as possible, not just amongst bees, but among other groups as well.

And so we have put in different native plant gardens or plots along boulevards in boulevard medians, places where, you know, we landscape architectures, plant, get people to plant trees in a boulevard median that's a meter wide. But, you know, that's an exceptionally harsh environment. In Calgary, we get tons of snow. And so we lay down tons of salt in the winter. So these are extremely saline environments and the trees don't live. And so what we're doing is pulling all that out and developing native plant mixes that can exist, that are extremely drought tolerant and salt tolerant. And so a lot of the plant choice is being done by Jenna Cross with the parks department.

She's an incredible horticulturalist and encyclopedia of native plant knowledge. And with, you know, David Ms. Felt, who's the roads department is kind of the ringleader of this whole enterprise. And so there's some really great work going on there.

And it keeps growing. We started off with one study site. And, you know, once all the community groups and people started finding out about this, it grew from one site last year to maybe a dozen sites this year.

And it's just growing like wildfire. That people really want this information on what native plants to grow. That plant choice selection is really challenging. And I mean, we see lots of plant lists and pamphlets and brochures and stuff on what to grow for the bees or what to grow for the butterflies.

But often they they're not informed by a lot of this biodiversity data because it's not often available to a lot of practitioners. And so hopefully we're going to be able to make a lot more of that information available because it's not just, you know, designing plant communities with bees in mind. You know, oh, we should plant this and this for specialist bees.

And that'll support the generalist bees as well. But we know we all know about the monarch butterfly relationship with milkweed. And that's true for many, many other butterflies. And so, you know, when you see these butterfly seed mixes, they're they're for nectar plants for adult butterflies to come in nectar on. But a lot of these butterflies, their caterpillars eat a specific host plant.

And if you don't grow that specific host plant, if you don't grow the lupins, you don't get the lupin butterflies. And so it's just trying to make a lot of this information more available and then also integrate it into our decision making process.

Speaker 1: You know, just for the listeners who missed that show and you know, Allison now Allison Center from who's working in the museum with the bumblebees. Alice, we did that episode with Allison on butterflies and organs. That's great. To get some of those those host plant association.

Speaker 2: Yeah. OK. So you're also working on the other side of the Rockies as well, though. You've got projects going on. It is the Columbia Basin. It's the Columbia. It's like it is upstream from us.

It is. What are you doing there? I'm way upstream from the Willamette. And I'll be conducting some research again this summer in the Pondarré Valley, the British Columbia section. And we know the Pondarré flows out of Idaho into northeastern Washington. And then there's a small section of the river before it flows into the Columbia in British Columbia. That's, there's about 25 kilometers of the river or so. So I'll be in there. Last year I was primarily conducting surveys.

And so in a couple of weeks I was able to document 115 species, including lots of really rare and interesting things. Find a new family. I did. I documented a new bee family for the province of British Columbia, the Malita Day, which are the oil collecting bees.

It took me about 10 years to track these things down. They only visit yellow loo strife, which is a riparian or wetland plant. And so you have to be in the right environment where there's populations of the plant at the right time of the bloom. And then you find the oil collecting specialist bee.

Speaker 1: People thought Sasquatch was hard to find.

Speaker 2: Oh, I saw lots of Sasquatch before I saw that bee.

Speaker 1: They actually employed them. They're doing trap lines for you.

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. They refill my vein traps every seven to 10 days.

Speaker 1: Okay. All right. Well, okay, let's take a quick break. I got to process that image. Let's come back and get some tips for some of our people in Oregon, the Atlas, throughout the country. Absolutely. Great. Well, okay.

This is a sat. We talked a little bit about the Sasquatches in the break. They seem very friendly. They're not at all anything to be feared. But okay, so coming back to this, we do have, and you've met some of them already and they're really excited to meet you. We have these 120-ish volunteers across the state who are out collecting bees for the first time in their lives, some of them, some of them are collecting a little bit. What are some of the things for them to keep in mind as they go out doing this for the first time? What are some of the tips that they should keep in mind about collecting bees?

Speaker 2: The first thing I'll mention is to always collect good data because a sample without a date and a place doesn't have any value. It's a waste of effort on multiple levels. Collecting can be expensive sometimes.

You're driving out somewhere, you're spending a day, so just always make sure your samples have the date and the place, if nothing else. Another thing to mention is we have an incredible number of species in this state, several hundred. In order to document several hundred species, you have to catch a lot of bees. The reason for that is because in any particular place at any particular time, there's a standard species abundance, which means you have a few species which are really abundant and common and then you have some species which are moderately abundant and then you have many species which are rare. When you're sampling, if you only catch 10 bees, you'll catch four or five of the most abundant species.

You'll catch one or two of the moderately abundant species and you're not going to catch any of the rare or more interesting things. If we look at it from our Oregon State Arthopot collection perspective, we have lots of the common bee specimens. But we have often only one or two or not, no specimens of things that are specialized either by floral visitation or by habitat. In order to find those more interesting things and in order to document a large number of species, you have to collect a lot of specimens. When I'm setting out traps, I set out a lot of traps and when I'm collecting off a particular flower, I will try to catch about 50 specimens. If I'm standing in front of a flowering tree, I will try to catch about 50 specimens as a minimum because there's also a trade-off that when you're producing small samples, they're more labor-intensive to pin and curate and digitize the data and all of these things. It's much easier to have a large sample from one date and place where they all have the same labeled data. So you're not producing two unique labels for a 2B sample.

Speaker 1: You know, there's something else that you mentioned about this that I thought was really intriguing. We had dinner one night or something, but you were saying that one idea is that we'll make these floral plants, these plant B associations, but you only have one record, so you're never sure if it's a real record. If you collect extensively on a plant off a group of plants, then it really fills that picture in. It's not just a random B was there. The real preference is...

Speaker 2: Yeah, because we know the larger your sample, the more data you have and the more knowledge you have about those things. And so if we collect bees off of willows all around the state early in the season, we'll find that there's regional differences in the fauna of bees that will visit willow. We'll find that there's lots of willow specialist bees, which there are, and we'll also have a strong data set for which generalist bees visit willow and also bumblebees. And for those social species that are trying to set up colonies, it gives us some strong information about what their requirements are, because some things are better than others.

Speaker 1: Okay, but coming back to that point, you only collected a few... You may not really understand the full role of that plant in the community. If you only have a few individuals, you may have just caught them like a fluke catch and doesn't put them in the distribution of species using that plant.

Speaker 2: That's right. You don't get deeper into that species abundance curve, which doesn't exist at any particular habitat at a particular time, but it can exist on a single flowering plant as well. So if we go out and collect off willow, we're going to find that there's some bees that are really abundant on willow and then some that are moderately abundant and some that are rare and so on. And so we can show or infer, I think we can infer from a larger data set just from willow, which critters are most benefit from having willow in the landscape.

Speaker 1: If that's striking, some people do are concerned about collecting bees and so on. Hurting the bees. But it does strike me that if you're able to make good on these data sets, coming back to your very first point in the interview, then we can do real sensible restoration. Rather than guesswork, we can actually really help the bees by getting a better, more complex idea of their needs through this kind of collection.

Speaker 2: That's right. And for some of those things that we know are rare or just infrequently encountered, if they're floral specialists, then that makes our job in restoration easy. And if it's some really drought resistant plant from really hot parts of the basin, then within the basin, within municipalities or within the state forest or depending on the land use managers, I guess, we could tell them, hey, you should put this plant into your restoration. And also in the future, hopefully we can work really closely with all the native plant nurseries to start developing the techniques and get the horticultural knowledge needed to produce seed on a large scale economically. Because right now, we don't have strong horticultural knowledge for all of these native plants. And we know lots of them are very difficult to cultivate. And it's often a case of, well, we don't have any experience doing it. And so how do we cultivate these things?

How can we do that and also generate a lot of quality seed that we can use to... We're just talking about healing the landscape through planting, which is a really old idea. But this is kind of the cutting edge. It's like simple knowledge that is becoming more and more valuable as we go forward.

Speaker 1: You know, one last thing I want to just kind of get your thoughts on before we take a break is one of the things... I mean, I took a B class with you, you offered one in Vancouver Island. You're going to be offering one, the I-B-B course, the first Oregon B school July...

Speaker 2: 9th to 13th. Right.

Speaker 1: So I think we're full, but we're thinking of running another session. But I remember when we took that more to come, check the website. But the one thing I do remember you saying is one of the ways that these museums collections can work and the kind of work that you're doing right now can help our volunteers focus their sampling effort. If we know we have a record from 50 years ago of a bee in an area and it was seen on that plant host that you can use that to kind of zero in and try and see if that bee's still around.

Speaker 2: That's right. Because the biodiversity of bees in the state is so extreme with like several hundred different species, there's lots of species that have only been seen once or twice or three times and sometimes just three specimens from one flower on the same day in 1938. And so there's an enormous potential for collecting extremely valuable modern data. So if you go out to the basin and collect off a lot of these hot spot or desert plants, you stand a really great chance of rediscovering bees that haven't been found in the state for 40, 50, 60, 70 years, as well as maybe ever, depending on the habitat. There's probably lots of new species to be recorded in Oregon for the first time. We have lots, we have an incredible number of species that are very data deficient and possibly widespread as well, but we just don't have the information.

Speaker 1: Well, okay, so volunteers, you're going to be hearing a lot more from Link and we, just to mention again, this is part of that new pollinator health grant, the FFAR grant. This work is going to be going for the next four years and you're going to be around here helping us kind of get these mega-kylie records, get that collection in order and determined. Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. Okay, let's take a quick break. I know we got to run shortly, but let's take a quick break.

We have to ask, we have to get your opinion on these three questions. Yes. Oh, our guess. Uh-oh. Okay, and we are back.

So, okay, we've got three things we ask all our guests. First one is a book. Is there a book recommendation that's been, a book has been really influential to you or that people really need to know about? It's like a really kind of key book.

Speaker 2: Are we talking fiction or non-fiction? About Sasquatches. About Sasquatches? Okay, well, the Sasquatch Field Guide to British Columbia is really comprehensive. You can find out all the places, the time. The place you can find the footprint, the footprint, the hand-cakes.

You got it. You know, for non-fiction, I think The Bees of the World by Charles Mitchner. It's his magnum opus. It has information on all the Bees of the World. It makes great bedtime reading. And with... Do you use it? Oh, yeah. It has a lot of keys as well to genera and subgenera. So I use it all the time. It's the reference for the biodiversity.

Speaker 1: And why do you... So we've had people on the show in the past say, oh, regional keys are better because you don't have... Why a world key? What does a world key do?

Speaker 2: Well, it doesn't just have world keys. It has many, many... It probably has hundreds of keys in it. So some of them are of exceptionally broad scope, global scope, but a lot of them could be western hemisphere or eastern hemisphere. And so, for example, if I'm working on the tribe Osmeiny, which I am, there's a key to the western hemisphere, genera. And then possibly within some of those genera, for example, the genus I'm working on right now, Ashmediella, there may be a key to the subgenera of Ashmediella.

And now because that genus only occurs in western North America, then of course, all of our specimens will key out potentially to subgenus. And it's just very informative. Do you have a fiction recommendation? Yeah, I like 1984 by George Orwell. It's a classic. It is a classic.

Speaker 1: Just the rats and the...

Speaker 2: Well, I already quoted it this morning. You did? Yeah, I asked you, Adoni, what's in room 101.

Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, you don't want to know.

Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. Best not to ask. That's right. You don't want to know. OK, is there a tool, your go-to tool for working with doing the kind of stuff that you do, which is a lot of stuff? Yeah, a fishing rod. Without question is, well, several fishing rods, one for each task. And because you are an avid fisher person. I am a fisher person. Yeah.

Speaker 1: And Oregon's got some great fishing holes.

Speaker 2: I hope so. I haven't I haven't found any yet.

Speaker 1: Listeners, so if you've got some good fishing spots, email us.

Speaker 2: Yeah, please. If you have a salmon fishing boat at a new port, we should talk.

Speaker 1: OK, all right. Well, any other... Do you have any B related ones?

Speaker 2: Oh, you know, probably one of the most important things in my work is a jerry can full of ethanol because I collect everything into ethanol.

Speaker 1: Like, tell us about you. I didn't know any of this about ethanol. You need your day ethanol, not bad. Tell us about.

Speaker 2: So I use laboratory grade ethanol and in various institutions, you can get it in your bio or chem stores, either usually 70% or 95%. Ethanol preserves your bees. It'll it'll dehydrate them to some degree. It preserves the DNA quite well and it just and it cleans them and sterilizes them while they're in solution. And so when you go to prep your bees, they are wet. However, you know, we will put them on a paper towel to damp them dry and then tumble dry them to make them look pretty again. And then, of course, you're still able to sequence the DNA.

Speaker 1: And so you don't want to use them like rubbing out the hole.

Speaker 2: Right. I've had sometimes you're in the field and your jerry cans empty. So you go to the pharmacy and you buy some isopropyl alcohol or rubbing alcohol. But what I've found over the years is that those collections, the specimens are exceptionally brittle and become very, very difficult to pin and work with without damaging them significantly. So if you need, find a source for quality lab grade ethanol and try to avoid at any cost using isopropyl because it'll make it'll really reduce the quality of your samples.

Speaker 1: It's going to look really bad in the show notes. Link wants fishing rod and alcohol.

Speaker 2: Tools. Yeah. Key words for the podcast. Sasquatch fishing rod alcohol. Ninety five percent.

Speaker 1: Ninety five percent Sasquatch. Yeah. OK. All right. So last question I have for you is amongst all of these bees that you run into, is there one that you're just excited? It just never ceases to excite you when you see it.

Speaker 2: I have obviously I have a ton of favorite bees and I've studied bees all over the world in many countries and on several continents. But really the bee that got me hooked on this crazy obsession was a bunch of male usura, spring longhorn bees that I found in northern British Columbia. Many, many years ago and they were digging the females out of their burrows in this giant sand dune. And I, you know, seeing these male usura with the antennae that are almost as long as their body, I just could not believe that a bee could look like that with a yellow face and super long antennae. I just it blew my mind and it still does.

Speaker 1: So is this just the species or

Speaker 2: no, it's not uncommon for, you know, because males of solitary species emerge, you know, about 48 hours before the females emerge, it's not unusual for them to dig into the nests to try and mate with the emerging females as early as possible. It's what that's the male's job and it's super competitive. So it's no surprise that they will seek out the emerging females.

Speaker 1: That poor mutant that was like, I'm just gonna wait. I'm just gonna wait.

Speaker 2: Yeah, they don't exist. You don't make it.

Speaker 1: You have to get your elbows in there, son. Yeah. Okay. Well, that's great. Thank you so much. We're looking forward to having you around here. It's been just such a delight and having you here at OSU and looking forward to having you on some big shows.

Speaker 2: Thanks, Sidonia. I look forward to working on the Oregon Beef on it.

Speaker 1: Thanks so much for listening. Show notes with information discussed in each episode can be found at pollinationpodcast.oregonstate.edu. We'd also love to hear from you and there are several ways to connect. For one, you can visit our website to post an episode-specific comment, suggest a future guest or topic, or ask a question that could be featured in a future episode. You can also email us at [email protected]. Finally, you can tweet questions or comments or join our Facebook or Instagram communities. Just look us up at OSU Pollinator Health. If you like the show, consider letting iTunes know by leaving us a review or rating.

It makes us more visible, which helps others discover pollination. See you next week.