115 – Robert Marshall – Roadside pollinator habitat

Speaker 1

From the Oregon State University Extension Service, this is pollination, a podcast that tells the stories of researchers, land managers and concerned citizens making bold strides to improve the health of pollinators. I'm your host. Doctor Adoni Melitopol, this assistant professor in pollinator health in the Department of Horticulture. As an extension agent, I get a lot of questions about pollinator habitat and roadsides. You know, roadsides constitute a big area in every state, and they connect together many different habitats that seem a natural fit for pollinator habitat. But I always scratch my head because I didn't know anything about roadsides. So I was so excited this week to get an invitation. From Robert Marshall, who's the roadside development and landscape architect program. At the Oregon Department of Transport, I went down to ODOT and Salem and we had a conversation where he laid out some of the obstacles to putting in pollinator habitat, but also profiled and featured a number of real success stories here in Oregon of community groups partnering with ODOT to create pollinator habitat. This is a great episode that answers a lot of my questions, and I hope it's sort of. Demystifies roadsides and pollinators for you this week. Robert Marshall on pollination. I am so delighted to be in Salem at the Oregon Department of Transport with Bob Marshall. Welcome to pollination.

Speaker 2

Well, I'm happy to be here. Thank you for the Invitation.

Speaker 1

Well, one of the reasons was we had a bunch of listeners. Who contacted us and were really delighted to see lupins planted in the medians. I had seen them on the eye too. 205 going to the airport. Tell us a little bit about the story of where those lupins came from.

Speaker 2

yeah, that was an interesting story. Those lupins were actually the Russell Hybrid, which are a horticultural introduction that are derived from the native Lupin. The Lupinus polyphyllus OK and so the Lupinus polyphyllus is everybody is seeing the native blue loop and that has these big, big spikes of blue flowers. The Russell hybrids have colors and coral and pink and. Yellow. That's right. And along I2O5 there is the project was a cable barrier which is a flexible barrier, but if a vehicle runs off the road, this cable barrier would stop it from running into oncoming traffic. So the construction of this cable barrier. It disturbs a lot of soil and the Lupin was used for a couple of reasons, for one. It is a. It's in the P flower family, so it fixes nitrogen into the soil. And as you can imagine, roadside soils are not really your rich garden soil. These are pretty barren soil, so having the loop in there can kind of introduce the nitrogen. Into the soil. So basically fertilizes the roadside. Yeah, and. Odot is not without an aesthetic sensibility, and we've got a landscape architect. His name is Magnus Bernhardt in region one who likes, you know, to do the right thing for aesthetics. And he introduced those looping into the into the disturbed ground. And what made it especially interesting is that during the evening rush hour, vehicles are going very slow and so they've got time to look out their window and botanize. And meanwhile, the sun is setting on the western horizon. And so the light is coming up horizontally through these warm colored. Flowers and they basically just lit up. And you were right. The contact O dot lines pretty much just jumped off the hook with people really, really pleasantly surprised to see that the agency was, you know, flecking the roadside with the flowers. Well.

Speaker 1

It did look magnificent and I was, I think, crawling in traffic at that point, going to the airport and seeing it. And it was really delightful. It really made the commute. And I guess people look at think of lupins and think, oh, these are pollinator flowers. But ODOT has programming around pollinators specifically. Can you tell us a little bit about that programming?

Speaker 2

Yeah, the we've got kind of a pollinator task force. And one thing that can go back to the loop in a little bit. One thing I like about the loop in other than the fact that they fix nitrogen is that.

Speaker 1

Yeah, please.

Speaker 2

They have a really unique flower that has kind of a closed flower parts and it takes a bumblebee, a real strong, robust, broad shouldered bee to kind of work, open the plant parts to get at the nectar and the pollen and so. The bumblebees are not really thriving like we hope they would, and so putting a flower out there that specifically saves its goodies for the bumblebees I think is kind of a nice a nice aside to having a pretty roadside flower.

Speaker 1

That's what was going through my mind when I was driving by. In addition to enjoying the. The multi color display is. Here is a piece of land where and it's really wonderful hearing the story because it was multi-purpose. It looked good. It was fixing nitrogen and it also was helping pollinators at the same time. So but as you were, but you were mentioning that ODOT also has a specific focus on pollinators through pollinator health task force.

Speaker 2

Yeah, yeah, we've got this task force and that that started. The Pollinator task force it started with the. Let me start. Well, there was a group of people on the Central Coast who wanted to that they wanted to manage the roadside for pollinator habitat and they got the ear of the director at the time, Matt Garrett. And they. Beat their fists on the desktop and insisted that they be allowed to do that. So the director put together the. He actually he came to the Geo Environmental Group, which is what I am a part of. And he said make this happen and so the pollinator task force was kind of assembled. I was not an employee of the agency at that time, but it started before I got here.

Speaker 1

OK.

Speaker 2

It has done quite a few things, kind of. Working through the different regions in the state. I am the roadside development program leader. And so I try to set an agenda and I try to inspire with some enduring values, but I've got no directing authority over what staff do. So I'm a policy wonk, basically and.

Speaker 1

OK. OK.

Speaker 2

So that's how I got involved in the pollinator task force.

Speaker 1

OK. That's really interesting. It's interesting to have, you know, the agencies in responsive to stakeholders and what they're asking for and sort of coming up with a task force. Response and I know there have been a number. Of projects that have a specific focus on pollinators, can you tell us a little?

Speaker 2

Bit about those. Ohh sure. Well it can be either a very short story or a very long story because it is only just recently that the pollinator task force has.

Speaker 1

OK.

Speaker 2

Actually gotten some of their ideas put into the ground, the coastal pollinator habitat project was only.

Speaker 1

OK.

Speaker 2

Signed as an intergovernmental agreement a couple of months ago, and so that what that will do basically is ODOT had to identify areas where it would be safe for citizens to work on the roadside. If you know Hwy. 101, it can be very narrow.

Speaker 1

Ohh, fantastic.

Speaker 2

It is already as lush as it possible. You couldn't if you were to drop a dime through the vegetation, it wouldn't hit the ground. The vegetation is so deep. So we had to find areas where people could pull off and park where there were gaps in the vegetation that was on O dot right of way and where the people working on the roadsides could be safe. And so we put together a spreadsheet of about, I think was about 120 different sites.

Speaker 1

OK.

Speaker 2

On 25 miles between Newport and Walt. Report and came up with about 30 that would satisfy the different requirements of that task force of the of the Citizen Group. OK, some of the other projects that we worked on, I don't know if you travel Hwy. 26 over mount. Hood, but that was a safety project, which was not. Pollinator focused at all that was to create a wider shoulder so that on that narrow Rd. where people are coming back from the mountains after being, you know, doing their exercise and getting tired and needed to be safer there. And again like on the median project.

Speaker 1

Oh yeah.

Speaker 2

Included lupins in the seed mix and in that situation it had to comply with the US Forest Service guidelines and had to be species. True, it couldn't be any horticultural hybrids of the native Lupin that lived there. I believe that was also polyphyllus. But sometimes we have to use the Lupinus rivularis which is the riverbank. Because it has less of the alkaloids which are toxic to herbivores to cows basically, so that that's just one of the concerns we had anyway. Driving over Mount Hood in the springtime, you come across these newly.

Speaker 1

Uh-huh. OK.

Speaker 2

Cut hillsides that weren't raw like you usually expect to cut at construction sites, but they were just carpeted in blue, so not a pollinator project, but.

Speaker 1

A very but. But serving pollinators, yeah.

Speaker 2

Oh, absolutely, absolutely. Another project that we worked on that actually is a pollinator specific project was out in Beaverton where. Existing roadsides were again our landscape architect in Region 1 negotiated with maintenance to revise their maintenance practices so that they would mow close and tight immediately adjacent to the roadway. So that if a run aware of an errant vehicle, somebody dozed off or spaced out or something kind of wanders off the road, they've got a safe area they can recover and get back onto the road or rec. Every zone, and so that would be mowed tight. But the interior of the interchange quadrants were allowed to grow and wildflowers or sometimes kind of introduced flowers like the Shasta Daisy, were in the ground. We're in the seed bank already.

Speaker 1

Oh yeah.

Speaker 2

So by not mowing the interior of the quadrant, flowers that were already in place were allowed to go through their life cycle.

Speaker 1

Ohh huh.

Speaker 2

And that was a very pleasant to see that happen. Similarly on I-5 in Portland, just north of the Williger curves, it was not long ago they built a big retaining wall to add that another width of shoulder.

Speaker 1

Just north, OK.

Speaker 2

And they backfilled against that big retaining wall with soil and capped it with good topsoil. And the intent, you can see it that there are trees growing there, but. The landscape architect introduced an entire successional community so that there was a introducing introductory ground plane of wildflowers that will eventually kind of dissipate as the trees grow taller and shade. Not the wildflowers. So that was a good one. And in Medford, the maintenance crew. Who had some leftover guardrails and some leftover soil, and they worked with Tom Landis down in Medford and created a purpose built Monarch Way station with the what is it, the milkweed? So that was very cool. Other ones we've got, I don't know if you knew that. In their construction of new roads, they impact sometimes valuable habitat, and I don't really recall which the project was, but they ran through A and disturbed a section of Kincaid's Lopin, which is the host. Plant to the fenders blue butterfly and to mitigate that they bought 35 acres of kind of degraded agricultural. Land on which there were already some remnant patches of Kincaid's Lupin. So, they went after these 35 acres and they controlled burns, and they did weed removal and they introduced new King Kate's Lupin. And it has turned out to be just kind of a wonderful Willamette Valley Meadow. There's Sadal, Sica and Domatium and Brodiaea, and Kincaid's Lupin. And that that's a nice one. So, and that's kind of what we've got going on for pollinator product.

Speaker 1

That's a lot. It's. And they all sound really remarkable, and I guess the thing that strikes me in that story is this. You know, I was thinking about the one in Beaverton specifically. It's not just, you know, when we've talked to people in agricultural land, for example, when they put in pollinator habitat, they have a certain operational consideration. That the operational considerations, the maintenance of all of this land with you know must take. Thousands and thousands of people spend hours maintaining this. This is a very complicated procedure trying to fit pollinator habitat into this very intricate management scheme with all these competing considerations must be very difficult.

Speaker 2

You have no idea. But we'll soon talk about that. So yeah, it, it's, it's cool. It's cooled the agency. We are the owners of more than 50,000 acres that are not under pavement, and this is public land, and it is in everybody's best interest that we make use of that land to the best public. Good. Obviously, we're a transportation agency and. Managing it primarily for safe and efficient transportation is the prime directive.

Speaker 1

Well, tell us about some of those challenges. What kind of challenges when you know the staff that's out on the front lines sort of managing land, what do they encounter, what? You know, what do people need to sort out? What don't we know of the challenges that they face?

Speaker 2

Well, a challenge to put pollinator habitat in place is the most obvious one is that. Maintenance mows sometimes when the plants are blooming, and that kind of abbreviates the pollination cycle. But.

Speaker 1

Because it must be tough because they've got a, you know, they can't schedule, they're they've got a lot of a lot of land in a short period of time they. Have to do maintenance on.

Speaker 2

Well, it's even shorter than you know. Well, because they can't really. And we're talking about the Willamette Valley here because on the east side of the Cascades, they really don't mow at all. And there's really lots of very viable habitat on the east side of the Cascades, on the West side of the coast range. There's hardly any right of way. At all the. The shore pine comes right up to the back. Back of the roadside. So, we're talking about the Willamette Valley, and it is one of the most generous landscapes in the country. So, stuff wants to grow here. Maintenance can't mow early because it's still so soggy. The equipment. The sink and they can't malate because the equipment will spark fires.

Speaker 1

All right.

Speaker 2

So, what did you think was a short window? You can just pretty much cut that in half. OK. And so meanwhile. People don't, you know, people see the mowers out there and they go ohh. Maintenance is mowing again but their plate is crazy full. They've got everything that happens in the winter, so they got it. They got a plow. Even in the Willamette Valley, they got to remove snow. They do landslide repair, homeless. Camp cleans up noxious weed control, cleaning up after, sometimes just terrible accidents. They have to remove roadkill, and then they get new tasks kind of put on them all the time.

Speaker 1

Yeah, right.

Speaker 2

Because the pavement is an impervious surface in motor vehicles are by nature kind of funky. There is pollution that comes off the road, and because O dot is. We are signatories to some permit obligations to keep the waters of the state clean because of endangered species, we are required to treat the water that runs off of new construction, new impervious surface, and so we use.

Speaker 1

Yeah. OK.

Speaker 2

Bioswales and bio slopes and we use the soil microorganisms and the physical properties of plants to intercept and to breakdown pollutants. And so, this is a whole raft of work that maintenance didn't really expect 10 years ago. This wasn't even on the radar. OK, so maintenance has a lot of tasks and. Not just to do these things, but they have to maintain the roadsides for safe and efficient transportation and what that means is they have to remove obstacles in the safe runoff and recovery zone, have to remove hazard trees, they have to remove fire fuel. And keep sight lines open. They have to remove cover for large wildlife and so they have many master's and then regarding pollinators, what you and I take for granted is that you know the things bloom and then they turn brown and the seeds scatter and the. Life cycle begins again. But some house fraud driving by in a big suburban she sees the spent flowers and she thinks that ODOT doesn't care so.

Speaker 1

It has been neglected. Ohh it might look that way because they don't understand. This is deliberate and we're trying to establish that of course that's understandable.

Speaker 2

Right, right. And then the then the phone calls come in and maintenance is beholden to the public. And so that is this definitely a consideration, so.

Speaker 1

Of course, yeah.

Speaker 2

That is, that is one of the big challenges that we have to face. Maintenance has many master's and having to find places in the landscape where pollinator habitat is appropriate, it takes a little bit of thinking. These are there are these places if we've got a project with long slope. Because right of way, real estate is expensive, the slopes are pretty steep and mowers never go there, so that is perfect for wildflowers. They could be situations where there's guardrail mowers that don't need to go behind the guardrail. That could be a good pollinator habitat. And the agency has facilities. They've got borrow areas. Sometimes they need rock. They've got disposal areas. Sometimes they need to get rid of dirt. And there are rest areas. There are trails like the Portland Spring Water Trail or the Medford Bear Creek Trail that are ODOT land that are isolated from traffic. And so that's all the better for pollinators. There's concern that. Vehicle strikes take out pollinators and that's true. But if you've got habitat there, it's research. Research has shown that the.

Speaker 1

Of course.

Speaker 2

Abundance is increased at a greater number than the vehicle strikes remove specimens.

Speaker 1

Ohh right. OK, imagine that I hadn't. I hadn't thought of that. That that they're, you know, having the habitat in the vicinity may have this negative effect, but actually it just outweighs it, because you're really, you're producing more bees. Does that have that? OK, got you.

Speaker 2

Yeah. Yeah. And it's also been proven with research is that if you've got a generous. Smorgasbord of different flowers that have a different bloom time, and so the bees don't want to go anywhere. They're lazier than I am. And if they've got all their sustenance right there, they'll stay right there and just stay at the through.

Speaker 1

OK.

Speaker 2

So, all right. But so, what other? And I was talking about where there are good places for pollinators along the roadside. Even though we've gotten some areas like facilities or rest areas that are points, the agency has corridors and corridors have a special value in wildlife management in that they can connect habitats and so. For monarch butterflies, for example, it is, it is known that the Western tribe of the monarch butterflies can be in Eastern Oregon, but they want to go to central California in the winter. And so there is a NS corridor that. It isn't exactly known what their migration route is, but O dot has roads that go there, and so we have developed a strategy where immediately adjacent to the roadsides they've got it cordoned off into kind of hypothetical zones. So, one is the shoulder. Zone 2 is the ditch and to the backside of the ditch, and then Zone 3 is from the backside of the ditch to the limit of the right of way line. Yeah, and within that Zone 3 there could be some run off and recovery zone, which is clear of obstructions and vegetation. It is kept low in case a vehicle needs to recover and get back on the road, but in that Zone 3 that is an option for introducing or preserving pollinator plants. So.

Speaker 1

That's fascinating. So, one thing I got out of this is the maintenance crews have a lot of challenges that they face, but there are these opportunities you're talking about those steep slopes, for example, these zone 3 areas, especially an area which is serves this really corridor purpose for wildlife such as pollinators.

Speaker 2

Right. We don't want to preserve. We don't want to use the roadsides for deer or elk, that's.

Speaker 1

That there are. Yeah. Ohh, right. Of course. Yeah. Yeah, because those don't need to be close to the road, but there are these opportunities and I guess you know them.

Speaker

They don't.

Speaker 2

Need to be close to the road at all.

Speaker 1

The task is in some ways identifying where these prime spots are and really targeting resources towards them. And I guess that brings me sort of the last question I want to ask you about was the Pollinator task force? And you talked a little bit about at the beginning sort of being really kind of. Developing in tandem with stakeholders' interests, where do you see? Tell us a little bit about the structure of it and where you know where it is going and some of the you know where you, yeah, tell us a little bit. About the task force.

Speaker 2

Well, we. First of all, there are very few landscape architects in the state, but the ones that are working and working on projects, that is where these opportunities are identified. It could be something like the middle of a roundabout. It could be a steep slope, but these are areas. That are disturbed, disturbed as part of a project. So, the landscape architects and where there is no landscape architect, it could be a botanist or. A biologist would work with me, and we'd come up with a plant palette to introduce pollinators where there aren't other conflicts, and some of those conflicts I hadn't even mentioned for milkweed, for example, those have little parachutes. On the seats and if you've got an agricultural interest that borders the O dot right of way, they do not want weeds corrupting the purity of their crops. So, we get a lot of pushbacks from agriculture.

Speaker

All right.

Speaker 2

And also, money, the prime function of roadside vegetation for ODOT is to prevent erosion and certainly flowering plants can do that. But grass can do that also on grass seeds. Inexpensive. And if you've got. A. A good pollinator seed mix that has multiple species that have sequential bloom times that gets more expensive and not only that, but some of the seeds are also different than the models that are set up for.

Speaker 1

Like it's more expensive.

Speaker 2

Germination and purity via our contract document. Some seeds have a real hard shell which will delay germination and some seeds have like that little feathery parachute or a sticky coating which makes it difficult to clean them. So that's purity and germination. They mess up, they don't fit comfortably into the model which ODOT uses for its seeds.

Speaker 1

Spec. So just to sort of reiterate this for ODOT, obviously you know its prime concern is to keep the soil in place and you know avoid that kind of maintenance issue and that can really efficiently be done with plants that don't necessarily. Their pollinators are like grasses that can be done cheaply and efficiently, and it serves taxpayers that way in being able to do that. But in some of these polls, Plants. They can be expensive and there are these spec issues where it really makes it very difficult to sort them in. OK, that's very fascinating. I would never have thought of that in a million years. So why don't they just put plant flowers in there?

Speaker 2

Right, right. There's a reason there. There is a reason, but.

Speaker 1

OK.

Speaker 2

There's enough for everybody. So, we have found ways that we can do pollinator plants and clearly. If you're introducing Lupin, for example, then you're introducing the fertilizer into the soil, which also helps the erosion control plant stabilize the ground. And so, we're working on it.

Speaker 1

OK. All right.

Speaker 2

We're working on it. So, what are some of the things that we're doing? I had mentioned that one of the talking points we're kind of bouncing around is a pollinator corridor and this is just at the talking stage right now. But my monarch corridor on the east side of the Cascades, it could be done really simply and cheaply just by planting some seeds along the fence line, because on the east side of the Cascades, for example, Hwy. 395 or highway. 97 those are North S corridors. The maintenance doesn't mow there, and there are milkweed species that live in every eco region of the state that's not above timberline. So. That that's a thought that we're playing with.

Speaker 1

Oh, that sounds amazing.

Speaker 2

Yeah. Yeah. And it's crazy good to. Have these up? I mean, even if it's just at the talking stage, at least we get to be thinking about fun stuff that's fascinating and serves of greater good.

Speaker 1

Of course.

Speaker 2

So that's one of them. And really, I'm trying to get involved and make more contacts and relationships in the districts. The Highway Division operates out of five regions, but the maintenance operates. Out of districts, and I think there's 18 or 20 districts and because maintenance really, they make the decisions about exactly how the roadsides are maintained and. You know these are Oregonians. They love this state. They know how beautiful it is and you know I'm from Portland and I'm not a shooter or I'm. I don't. I don't fish much anymore. But the people who are down in Southern Oregon are hunting. They are nature wise. They see all the connections.

Speaker

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2

And they appreciate what they can do on the road. Sides is not just some tree huggers fantasy, but this is part of the mosaic of. Absolutely. So, I winna. I winna get out there and talk to these people and talk to them about opportunities. And that's really where I see the program kind of blossom it.

Speaker 1

Well, I guess and that's the, you know, just thinking about the task force and its origins is it, you know, comes from the. You know deep community engagement thinking, community interests, and really that seems like a very sensible way to do things, to really take the lead from. You know what the community wants, because I imagine different communities across Oregon have different.

Speaker 2

Interests. Oh, yeah, very much so. Very much so. But it is kind of irrefutable that every place in the state loves their wildflowers. You don't you don't have.

Speaker 1

Ohh of course.

Speaker 2

A lot of people. Ohh, hate those flowers. Gosh darn it.

Speaker 1

No, there aren't. I. You know, there aren't any actually.

Speaker 2

Well, we haven't talked about purple loose drive.

Speaker

OK. Well, we.

Speaker 1

Do, have I? I guess this is the other, maybe that you know the other issue is. Because I imagine roadways are great corridors for invasive weeds to travel up and down, and so you do have this other, you know, being mindful about.

Speaker 2

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, probably never thought about it. But have you ever driven behind a hay truck?

Speaker 1

Yeah, stuff coming off all over the place.

Speaker 2

Right. And the hay has seeds of its parent crop. Yeah. Next time you're off to the hinterlands. Look at what's growing right on the roadside. And you speak? Well, Dang, that looks just like wheat. And there's a reason for that because the tray trucks are seeding our roadsides throughout the.

Speaker 1

Yeah, yeah. Right, of course.

Speaker 2

Date and you know there there's a lot of weeds and.

Speaker 1

OK. Well, no, I imagine this is one of those many tasks that you know, roadside maintenance staff or, you know one of the multipurpose I've green gained a lot of appreciation for the many, many hats they're forced to wear, right? Yeah.

Speaker 2

What are you going to do? It's. Yeah, but they're out in. They're out in nice country sometimes too. So, a lot of what they do is kind of heroic. I mean, some of the snowplow stuff, I mean, I can't imagine being out there at 3:00 in the morning in a driving snowstorm, driving a 30-ton truck with a blade on the front.

Speaker 1

Always appreciative when they come by. Well, let's take a quick break. Want to come back? We have to ask all our guests some questions. We ask them all the same questions. I'm really curious about it. What is your answer going to be? And we're back, OK? So, three questions. I we've never had.

Speaker 2

I'm a roadside development program coordinator.

Speaker 1

We've never had a roadside development program for ordinary people on the show. Your answers will color the whole occupation.

Speaker 2

OK, well, I never really thought that I would be the poster boy for all landscape architecture listening, but. I will try to represent them with dignity.

Speaker 1

I am sure of that. So, the first question we have is, do you have a book that you'd like?

Speaker 2

To recommend to people if the people listening are plant geeks.

Speaker 1

Many are, I can tell you that.

Speaker 2

I have just dog eared the heck out of my Franklin and drunk. Natural vegetation of Oregon and Washington. This is kind of a plant geek Bible that it inventories the plant communities of the Pacific Northwest right down to species. And so, you can be looking at. An altar swamp and get the whole list of species associated with that community. They go into some of the odd bird communities like the Serpentine soils down in the southwest. Or lahars it's a. It's fascinating.

Speaker 1

Book. Let me get this straight. So, you would, you would tell us how the book functions and so I'm not I'm always thinking ohh it's not a plant book. This is a plant community book so.

Speaker 2

How? How is it organized? It is organized by Eco regions and so.

Speaker 1

Ah, OK.

Speaker 2

It would have like the Oahu Uplands as one eco region it would have the High Cascades as an eco-region or the old Cascades as an eco-region or the Columbia Plateau and it. Organizes plant communities which fit into that Eco region. Obviously, they're repairing areas which kind of transition through all of.

Speaker 1

Is it?

Speaker

Right.

Speaker 1

Then, but so is it kind of like along a moisture gradient within the region? Is that sort of?

Speaker 2

Well, there's moisture and soil type and altitude, and there are many different factors which contribute to what defines a plant community like the Southern Oregon has ultramafic soils. That means a very high.

Speaker 1

All right, yeah.

Speaker 2

Iron nickel content to the soils which? I won't geek out too much, but they're basically infertile, and so that's why you have plants that grow there that grow nowhere else. For example, some of the carnivorous plants, which have found another way to acquire nutrients than from the soil.

Speaker 1

I remember as well from people in the Oregon Bee Atlas is one of the areas with. It is a very unique plant species and so we find pollinators there that we don't. Elsewhere in the state, well, this sounds like a fascinating book, and it also sort of highlights, you know, we're not in Nebraska, we've got such diversity. We have so many little niches that this really is kind of driving both plant and pulling diversity. When it comes to Land Management, it must make things very complicated.

Speaker 2

Oh no. Yes, yes it does.

Speaker 1

Well, the next question I have for you is do you have a go to tool, a tool that you find indispensable for the kind of work you do?

Speaker 2

Oh, absolutely Google. And Google will invariably take me to the USDA Natural Resource Conservation Service plant database.

Speaker 1

Tell us about the data. You're the first person to strangely, to plug in the plant database. Tell us how it works.

Speaker 2

Well, what I do? In Google I just usually use the scientific names because those are the real ones and type into Google and then it'll give me, you know, the list of options and then the database will show up there and the database of initially. Comes up with a map and the map shows the entire. Actually, the entire. I haven't gone over the whole world but stay in the United States and Canada and it will show you the range of that plan. Down to the county and it will tell you if that plant is a native or introduced. Then it can give you the wetland indicator status and there for many of the plants it will have a PDF of a plant guide which will give you the ethnobotany of the plant which is how it was used by them. The First Nations and what kind of is accord or food or medicine to that? And. Did you know that the? Genus of milkweed, Escapee Aus, is named after the Greek God of medicine.

Speaker 1

I am Greek and I did not know that I'm. I'm glad I'm now. I'm going to be like pushing that, yeah.

Speaker 2

Well, now well. But the but the milkweed, even though it is full of toxins, those toxins have medicinal purposes then. Uhm, and so anyway, if you're plant geek, announce some of the ethnobotany that you get into these plant guides just takes you on the story of the plant. And so those are tools that I find very handy.

Speaker 1

But I imagine for restoration, and I know NRCS also has. Lots of technical guides as well, specific to the region where they can really help you think carefully about plant selection and where you are. So, this must also be a very important tool for, you know, if you're trying to recreate those plant communities in the book that you described kind of like. Thinking about more detail about those plants and their needs.

Speaker 2

Right. And it gives you some information like again, I'm also the erosion and sediment control program leader. So, if you're looking at the plants you said, well, this one germinates very quickly and then it dissipates in the landscape. Well, for erosion and sediment control, that's a perfect nurse crop, it can, it can. Provide erosion and sediment control and then go away while the more premium plants may be something with a deeper or more broad spreading root system or with a good floral function. Those are often more, slower to mature and really fill that niche. So, USD database USDA database is a is a good resource that has a real depth of information that is very useful well.

Speaker 1

This is fascinating. You and I get the sense your person knows a lot of plants, so I'm really interested in your answer to this last question about do you have a when you're looking at those plants? Is there a pollinator species that you really get excited about?

Speaker 2

In case your listeners do not know you fed me these questions ahead of time and you the question was, do you have a favorite pollinator species? And in that I thought, well, my favorite pollinator species is the Lilium Columbiana, which is the that bright. Orange, Columbia. Lily, because pollinators like it is really lovely but.

Speaker 1

Oh, for heaven.

Speaker

Look at.

Speaker 1

Are you going back to the I, I have a one-track mind. I think about insects.

Speaker 2

But now that I knew you would come around to that. And so, I put on my thinking cap. And there is a Yucca moth, and this Yucca moth is. Is the sole the way I learned it? I might be it might be wrong, but I learned it as the sole pollinator for the Yucca Whipple. The Yucca Whipple eye is an architecturally round sphere of kind of semi rigid sharply. Pointed leaves. Yes. And this plant blooms once before dying, and it sends up a. Plant spike about 15 feet. That is covered with white cream-colored flowers and its common name is our Lord's candle. It grows on the kind of chaparral hillsides of Southern California and Arizona, and it is spectacular. The Yucca moth is the sole pollinator, and so it pollinates the Yucca and then injects its eggs into the seed pods. And the larvae will eat about 1/3 of the seeds out of the seed pod. So, the Yucca moth enables the Yucca to persist, and the Yucca enables the Yucca moth to persist. And it's like a perfect symbiosis. And so that's my favorite pollinator insect.

Speaker 1

That is spectacular. You've done your occupation, very proud, landscape architects around the world they're applauding. Thank you so much. I found this tremendously. There's a lot of this. I had no idea about it. I'm gained a lot of respect for the kind of work that departments of transportation do. Thanks so much for listening. Show notes with information discussed in each episode can be found at pollinationpodcast.oregonstate.edu. We'd also love to hear from you, and there's several ways to connect to the one you can visit our website to post an episode. Specific comments suggest a future guest topic or ask a question that can be featured in a future episode. You can also e-mail us at pollination podcast at oregonstate.edu. Finally, you can tweet questions or comments or join our Facebook or Instagram communities. Just look us up at OHSU pollinator health. If you like the show, consider letting iTunes know by leaving us a review or rating. It makes us more visible, which helps others discover pollination. See you next week.