[00:00:00] Andony Melathopoulos: [00:00:00] I'm really hoping that some of my listeners had the opportunity to listen to the Environmental Protection Agency's webinar series this summer dedicated to assessing risks to bees from pesticides. It's a really great webinar, it's really informative, and it really allows you to see how risk assessment around bees has really changed over the last few years. The next installment is going to be featuring myself along with two other co-panelists. And today I'm really excited to be welcoming onto the show, Caydee Savinelli who's from Syngenta Crop Protection who's going to be on this panel along with me and Patrick Jones from North Carolina Department of Agriculture.

[00:00:41] And I've had the good fortune to work alongside Caydee on the North American Pollinator Protection Campaigns pesticide taskforce. Caydee is Syngenta's US Stewardship Team Lead, and the stewardship team focuses on things like environmental issues, endangered species, pesticide safety, education, [00:01:00] and pollinator and biodiversity conservation initiatives. In this podcast she's going to be talking about something that she's going to be talking about also on the webinar - namely this coalition of companies that have gotten together called, Growing Matters and recommendations for pesticide applicators around pollinators stewardship called BeSure! So hope you enjoy this episode without further ado here's Caydee Savinelli this week on PolliNation. 

[00:01:29] Caydee! I'm really excited to have you here on PolliNation. Welcome. 

[00:01:32] Caydee Savinelli: [00:01:32] Thank you. I'm so excited to be here as well, I really appreciate it. 

[00:01:36] Andony Melathopoulos: [00:01:36] Now we are on a EPA webinar coming up this week and I got to see the practice talk and I was struck by this slide you had with a soybean grower Wayne Fredericks, who was talking to other growers about pollinator protection. So it raises the question, why is getting industry to convey the message around pollinator protection [00:02:00] so important?

[00:02:00] Caydee Savinelli: [00:02:00] So, as industry - I mean when I talk about industry it's the agricultural, chemical and seed industry, and we really do believe that pollinators are important. We need them when we're growing seed crops, so that's one reason why. We also recognize that they're really part of the environment and it's really important to protect them because we're not only protecting pollinators, but other insects, birds, et cetera in the environment. So we want farmers to be able to farm on their fields, but then keep the rest of the environment for all of the species out there.

[00:02:31] Andony Melathopoulos: [00:02:31] Well, you'll be talking about on the EPA webinar on best management practices is a initiative called BeSure! Tell us a little bit about why BeSure! was formed and what problem it was trying to address. 

[00:02:43] Caydee Savinelli: [00:02:43] Certainly. Just to reiterate something about industry is that, you know, we have a lot of knowledge and best practices as well as resources for pollinators. And so we thought it really makes sense to get together and so we got together with a number of other registrants and [00:03:00] we're allowed to work in this space because it's noncompetitive. So in 2013, a number of registrants got together and said, "okay, what can we do to enable farmers to still use our products and the benefits of those products, but at the same time helping pollinators?" 

[00:03:17] So we formed this group called Growing Matters coalition. And if you're interested in the Growing Matters coalition, which has a lot of good information, it's growingmatters.org. And then part of the Growing Matters coalition last year, as a matter of fact, 2019 we formed this BeSure! campaign. And really the whole BeSure! campaign is to get the word out to as many different people as possible about how best to use pesticides, but at the same time, protecting pollinators. 

[00:03:48] Andony Melathopoulos: [00:03:48] I guess, in that slide, when you had Wayne up there, that's precisely what he was doing to a room of soybean growers, kind of getting that conservation message out to them.

[00:03:59] Caydee Savinelli: [00:03:59] As well as the [00:04:00] importance of having the right tools to be able to farm. So it's that balance between tools for farming and also protecting pollinators. And Wayne is a really remarkable farmer because he gets it and they call him Mr. Monarch, because he is such an avid lover of Monarch butterflies. And he's really good. So he's great to work with and he's part of Iowa Soybean Association and Syngenta works closely with them on a number of conservation projects. 

[00:04:29] Andony Melathopoulos: [00:04:29] Tell us, what are some of the key messages that are being conveyed when talking to growers and applicators. You talked a little bit about this balance about, you know, maintaining products and having good pest control, but also doing good pollinator stewardship. But tell us elements on what you're trying to convey, and what's on the sort of checklist of things you're trying to get across.

[00:04:51] Caydee Savinelli: [00:04:51] So the most important element, and this is for everyone that uses uses a pesticide. And when I talk about pesticides, I'm talking about insecticides, [00:05:00] herbicides and fungicides. So the whole round, but the most important element is to read the label. Please read the label because it has information about directions for use, storage disposal and all of the important things that go into a label.

[00:05:17] We also talked to farmers a lot about minimizing drift or dust. So in other words, when they're applying a seed treatment, they have to watch for the dust, make sure it doesn't go in the direction of where the beehives are. When they're making an application, be aware of where the beehives are. And it's really important and there's a lot of really good equipment out there that's very precise that really does keep the products on the field. But it's important for farmers as well as applicators. Because you know, you have both aerial and ground applicators who are making these applications.

[00:05:50] Andony Melathopoulos: [00:05:50] Okay. So, read the label, make sure that when you're applying things you're really kind of conscious of any kind of drift off field, really trying to focus on [00:06:00] getting the product on the target rather than drifting. 

[00:06:04] Caydee Savinelli: [00:06:04] Yeah, a few more. Certainly when you clean the equipment, be careful where you're cleaning it, because there are some areas that are considered to be, you know, more protected. So, certainly watch where you're cleaning the equipment. And another thing that's really important, especially during either planting or applications, make sure if there are flowering plants, either in the field or around the field to take care of them. In other words, to eliminate them so that way the pollinators are not coming into the fields or close by when they're making an application. 

[00:06:35] And that's actually in a lot of our labels as well as really, you know, eliminate that. So you're not creating sort of this area that's kind of dangerous. And then the other part, which is really, we think is important is really understanding the crop bloom stage. So, a lot of crops, let's say apples, stone fruit, that type of thing - they have a very distinctive time of blooming. And so that's when the pollinators are going to be there. And certainly with a lot of our insecticide [00:07:00] labels it says, "do not apply during bloom." So once bloom is over, it's less of a problem. But during the bloom time, certainly with insecticides, we want to be very vigilant and definitely follow the label. And that applies not only to farmers, but also homeowners. 

[00:07:15] Andony Melathopoulos: [00:07:15] Oh, absolutely. I guess all of those concepts apply on a field as in the backyard. 

[00:07:23] Caydee Savinelli: [00:07:23] Exactly. And in fact, just as an aside, I saw my neighbors spraying something the other day, and I said, "what are you spraying?"  Because I thought, if she's spraying a pesticide she wasn't wearing proper clothing, but it turns out she was spraying something for the deer. But otherwise I would have, you know, encouraged her to wear socks and shoes and gloves and that type of thing. So, you know, you always have to be careful when you're spraying something. 

[00:07:45] Andony Melathopoulos: [00:07:45] Okay. Fantastic. That's great. Well, all right. So, is there any other elements that applicators or growers need to be conscious of?

[00:07:56] Caydee Savinelli: [00:07:56] To me one of the more important things is really know your beekeepers. You know, [00:08:00] a lot of times farmers will allow beekeepers to put the beehives on their farms. And so, you know, they kind of work together. So know the beekeepers, understand, you know, what they're facing. And then also, you know, the beekeepers need to work with the farmers - so I think that's critical as well. 

[00:08:14] Andony Melathopoulos: [00:08:14] Okay, so let's wrap some of those up. So it's really kind of reading the label, making sure that product is staying on target and where there may be some possibility of drift, really making sure to keep those blooming plants down that are living at the same time. Really being careful when cleaning the equipment up and then also having this good communication, proactive and productive communication with your beekeepers.

[00:08:37] Caydee Savinelli: [00:08:37] And if you're interested in what we're discussing, you want to see more information in addition to what you provide you can go to the growingmatters.org website. And if you look under "Stewardship", there's a PDF file of "Pollinators and Pesticides." And the stewardship activities that we had just talked about and there's a little bit more information than on the label, but it's good information and it's pretty easy [00:09:00] to read and understand. 

[00:09:01] Andony Melathopoulos: [00:09:01] Fantastic. We will link it in the show notes for anybody who wants to take a look. But let's take a quick break now, before we get into some of the other dimensions of BeSure!

[00:09:10] Okay, we’re back. So I wanted to just get into how the BeSure! message gets communicated to applicators and growers.

[00:09:20] Caydee Savinelli: [00:09:20] So, we have a lot of different ways to get the BeSure! message out there. Last year when we could travel, we were certainly going to a lot of the different trade shows and farmer shows. I even had like a little quiz that they could take, you know, "what's a bee?" "Is it a honeybee or native bee?" That type of thing. Half the people don't realize that honeybees are not native to the United States - so that was fun. But it's also fun to engage farmers and just having some dialogue, understanding how they understand about pollinators or understand even about integrated pest management and how they're using integrated pest management. And the importance of pollinators - so that I really like. 

[00:10:00] [00:10:00] But certainly with this year with our limitations on traveling, we have expanded to do radio shows. We do digital advertising, we also do Facebook, Twitter, all sorts of digital platforms. Just to get the word out, just to remind people and we've done a nationwide program this year. Last year it was just corn and soybean growers in the Midwest, now we're as far West, as California and Florida. 

[00:10:28] And a lot of these messages are really basic, like read the label, all of these things, but people need to be reminded. And we would like to remind them during either planting season or during the application season. So I think that's really important to just constantly remind people and keep in mind a lot of farmers or applicators are listening to their radios, they hear some of the news stories that go on and then they hear that and they say, "oh yeah, I have to remember that." 

[00:10:54] Andony Melathopoulos: [00:10:54] That is really good. And I think that is key. I liked the approach both [00:11:00] kind of like talking to growers at the trade show. So you get to understand how to craft the message and like how it resonates with them. And then really kind of that reminder. I think that reminder is always so important because a farmer has to remember so many things and it's great to get a little message on the radio, "it's seeding time, here, remember these key messages around around seeding and pollinators" I think that's fantastic.

[00:11:24] Caydee Savinelli: [00:11:24] And you know what I especially like? I love seeing the children. So you get to see the little, you know, the kids dressed up and they have different farmer outfits like John Deere and that type of thing. So I really love seeing the kids cause the kids really sort of bring the whole family element to some of these meetings, so it's just a lot of fun. 

[00:11:43] Andony Melathopoulos: [00:11:43] The one thing I did want to sort of pick up on, during the practice webinar - the thing is like a lot of us in Extension do social media outreach, but I was astounded at the kind of reach of this campaign. Like it's [00:12:00] really got to a lot of of people! 

[00:12:04] Caydee Savinelli: [00:12:04] So, let me give you the 2019 statistics, because we're still trying to gather 2020, because we're still really in the middle of it. So last year in 2019, we reached 80 million people through traditional media, 15 million through radio and 10 million through paid digital tactics. So, think of that! And a lot of people say, "are you trying to measure behavior?" Not necessarily, because it's hard - you have to have before and after. What we're really doing is trying to create awareness. And as I said, we did it in 2019, we're continuing in 2020. And I think this program will continue as we go on because it really does have a lot of value.

[00:12:42] Andony Melathopoulos: [00:12:42] Well, that is a good point. And I think there's a lot of merit in that and this is going to come out in the webinar, I think state lead agencies, registrants, industry and extension all can work together in a kind of continuum. And having that message out there [00:13:00] really pervasive allows us to do our job a lot better because growers are already kind of hearing it and understand it. 

[00:13:08] Caydee Savinelli: [00:13:08] Yeah. And we all reach some of the same people, but there's some other people that we may not be reaching. So you probably reach some people that our group doesn't reach and vice versa. So it's good to have lots of different things. And I think the other thing that's really important to me is that it's not just a company I work for, Syngenta - it's also the other companies that have the same messages. So that way we are saying the same thing rather than saying things that are, you know, antagonistic or whatever. And I think that's really important because this is something that we all believe in. 

[00:13:40] Andony Melathopoulos: [00:13:40] That is fantastic. Now, you end the presentation underscoring the importance of growers and other land managers, not just being really mindful about how they're using their pesticides around high risk situations to pollinators, but also about creating pollinator habitat. [00:14:00] And I thought that was really exciting. It's a great way that you end the webinars. Growers are really good at putting things in the ground, managing things, they're probably the best people for establishing pollinator habitat anywhere - they know what they're doing.

[00:14:16] Caydee Savinelli: [00:14:16] You can say that, but there is a certain level of expertise, planting flowers that is different than let's say planting corn. Because let me give you an example, I was working with a fellow farmer in Mississippi and I had sent him some seeds last year through our Operation Pollinator Program and he wrote back to me and said, "oh, you know, kind of looks not so good this year, could you send me some more seeds?" So I said, "sure, certainly." And what he did was he wrote back to me and said, "I went out again this year because this was year two. It looks great." So a lot of times when you're planting these things, you have to wait for the second year to really see the effects, but he was very happy.

[00:14:54] And so we work with a lot of different farmers and a lot of the farmers that we work closely with, we [00:15:00] provide them seeds to plant the forage and habitat. I work with a number of other groups such as Bee and Butterfly Habitat Fund, and they also have technical expertise mainly in the Midwest but they're expanding. And they're doing butterfly habitat, Monarch butterfly habitat, as well as honeybee habitat. And so that's been fun. Who else do I work with? Oh, you didn't mention - golf courses are also a really great place to grow. 

[00:15:25] Andony Melathopoulos: [00:15:25] Yeah, they are!

[00:15:27] Caydee Savinelli: [00:15:27] We have all those "out of play" areas and we've been working with the Audubon Society because they have a program called Monarchs in the Rough. And they're working with a lot of golf courses to plant milkweed around the country for the Monarch butterfly. So that's been fun! And Seeds for Bees with Project Apis. m. I could go on and on, but this is actually the most fun part of my job is you know, working with people, planting flowers, and just, you know, seeing these wonderful effects. 

[00:15:53] And then I was visiting another farmer in the past in Mississippi and the [00:16:00] same thing - first year didn't look very good, kind of embarrassed because everybody drives by his family farm, second year it looked great. So people after they were doing family events on  Sundays, going to church, et cetera, they would stop by his place and take photographs of the family in front of the pollinator habitat. Because it looks so beautiful and he was super excited! And then you have beekeepers putting their bees nearby because now they have some forage and habitat. So it's a really nice circle of the whole community. 

[00:16:28] Andony Melathopoulos: [00:16:28] I was thinking about this, it's like all three of those, you know, Midwest farmers, orchardists and golf course superintendents - we had Dave Phipps from Golf Course Superintendents of America, the Oregon chapter talking about some of the initiatives here in Oregon. And golf course superintendents really do know what to do especially in those roughs. And Syngenta has done a great job. There's a number of golf courses in Oregon that have the seed program with [00:17:00] Syngenta the Operation Pollinator Habitat put into the roughs. 

[00:17:04] And it's really great because they know what to do, they do need a little bit of technical expertise. I was thinking like the Seed For Bees program in California almonds where, you know, it is a different crop, but they know how to use the machinery, they know the timing, and once they kind of work out the kinks, they can really put a lot of pollinator habitat in a large area in a short time.

[00:17:32] Caydee Savinelli: [00:17:32] Yeah. I mean, it is remarkable. I'm really proud to be part of some of these programs and also, you know, work for a company that recognizes that pollinator biodiversity is important and they give me resources so I can do some of these things. So I have a great job. 

[00:17:49] Andony Melathopoulos: [00:17:49] Well, let's take a quick break. We have these three questions, we ask all our guests. Well, I know you're also an [00:18:00] entomologist and so I'm really kinda curious what your answers will be. We're going to pull up the entomology side of you. 

[00:18:04] Caydee Savinelli: [00:18:04] Well, you'll be surprised by one of my answers, but we'll do it 

[00:18:08] Andony Melathopoulos: [00:18:08] Very cool. Okay. Let's take a break. 

[00:18:11] Here we go. Okay. We're back. So the three questions. So first question is there a book recommendation?

[00:18:19] Caydee Savinelli: [00:18:19] I have two book recommendations. 

[00:18:20] Andony Melathopoulos: [00:18:20] That's okay, you got two.

[00:18:23] Caydee Savinelli: [00:18:23] So the first one I was looking at is, you know, we talk about pollinators and I'm an entomologist by training - so I actually love all insects. So when I was thinking about this, everyone's thinking about bees and that type of thing, but you know, people also classify butterflies as pollinators.

[00:18:38] And so I was looking through my books yesterday and I came up with, "The Illustrated Encyclopedia of The Butterfly World" by Paul Smart. And it's a lovely book, it's got lots of nice photos and they're by families, which I like because some butterfly books don't have them organized by the classification, where I prefer classification being a scientist. I think this is [00:19:00] a really good, simple book just to really see some really beautiful photos of butterfly. 

[00:19:06] Andony Melathopoulos: [00:19:06] I'm looking at it, you're holding it up. It's kind of coffee table size. And it looks like it has really large illustrations. Oh, yeah, you guys want this book. It's like pages of butterflies. 

[00:19:26] Caydee Savinelli: [00:19:26] And like I said, they're classified by families. So I went on a butterfly tour a couple of years ago, and I'd say, "what family is that?" You know, the butterfly experts don't necessarily know the families, they know more of the species. But I'm interested in the families being an entomologist. Because then it helps me understand, is it like something like a Monarch butterfly, which is an Nymphalid or you know, a large butterfly, like a Saturndia, that type of thing. So, sorry to get too technical.

[00:19:52] Andony Melathopoulos: [00:19:52] No, that's perfect. 

[00:19:54] Caydee Savinelli: [00:19:54] So since I was talking a little bit about forage and habitat, I am [00:20:00] part of the Native Plant Society in North Carolina, where I live. And they just came out with a book called, "The Southeast Native Plant Primer." Now this is primarily for the Southeast, but certainly there's probably a lot of native plant books that are available. That if you're really interested in planting things around your yard and garden look to natives cause natives have a lot of benefits. And you know, in addition to the ornamentals and they have some really pretty pictures and they talk about what's attractive to them. So it's bees and butterflies and that type of thing. 

[00:20:31] Andony Melathopoulos: [00:20:31] So it has the description of each - it's 225 plants, it shows a picture, it shows you an icon of what kind of pollinators will be attracted and a description of each one of them. That's really great. 

[00:20:45] Caydee Savinelli: [00:20:45] And a description of the plant and you know, how they grow, whether or not, spring, fall, summer, are they in the woods, do they need sun, that type of thing. So I just got this book the other day. I was on another zoom call on Sunday, but [00:21:00] this was really a lot of fun. And in fact, they're having a call in September about butterflies so that should be fun. 

[00:21:05] Andony Melathopoulos: [00:21:05] You know, I find I'm so bee focused - the thing that I get puzzled with is with bee plants there is a couple of great plants and you need the diversity obviously, but it seems like diversity of plants takes a whole different spectrum when you think about butterfly and moth host plants. Like it's a quagmire. 

[00:21:27] Caydee Savinelli: [00:21:27] To me, the go to plant is always our mints. Everybody loves mints and mints you can always identify because they have a square stem. It has four sides to the stem, so it's square and has opposite leaves. I have mints in my yard all over the place, they love them. And the other plant, which I think you can plant in Oregon is Sweet Joe-Pye-weed. Sweet Joe-Pye-weed is a bee and butterfly magnet, it's unbelievable. So they're flowering right now at my house and they're just like, "woo-hoo!" 

[00:22:00] [00:22:00] Andony Melathopoulos: [00:22:00] Fantastic!

[00:22:02] Caydee Savinelli: [00:22:02] That's what I do in my spare time. 

[00:22:05] Andony Melathopoulos: [00:22:05] What a better thing to do. I have to agree with you. I do it too. 

[00:22:13] Caydee Savinelli: [00:22:13] I'm so happy I became an entomologist because it's not just work, it's also outside. So I enjoy it completely. 

[00:22:21] Andony Melathopoulos: [00:22:21] I guess that's the thing with a lot of pollinators, like other insects can be nocturnal at least with bees and butterflies, moths notwithstanding, they're easy to observe and you can really even as a beginner entomologist, you can really learn stuff fairly quickly.

[00:22:42] Caydee Savinelli: [00:22:42] With a few exceptions most people like butterflies. I have met students that are actually afraid of butterflies, so I don't understand it, but most people don't even think of butterflies as being insects. So it's a really good gateway to learning more about insects. 

[00:22:56] Andony Melathopoulos: [00:22:56] Absolutely. Okay. So our next question is, do you have a go to [00:23:00] tool for the kind of work that you do?

[00:23:02] Caydee Savinelli: [00:23:02] I do. And this is from Purdue Extension Services in Purdue Universities in Indiana. And the name of the tool is, "The Complex Life of the Honeybee." And the reason why I like this tool so much is it goes into a lot of detail about honeybees, you know, how you raise honeybees, all of that. But then it also describes what type of studies are done to assess any potential risk from pesticides to honeybees and the process that the EPA follows. 

[00:23:30] The fact that the label actually represents all of the risk assessments. So, you know, we say, do not apply during flowering. That's part of the risk assessment and the timing and everything. If you haven't seen this, you have to download it cause it's about 60 megabytes, but it's a really good layman's persons information. I love it, I recommend it to everybody not just people that are in the science area.

[00:23:59] But [00:24:00] it's really, really good and Thomas Steeger from the EPA, he was one of the authors, Syngenta has one of the people that was an author. But I think if you really want to understand what studies EPA does and how they assess risk this is good. As well as understanding the whole honeybee life cycle and some of the issues they are facing. 

[00:24:20] Andony Melathopoulos: [00:24:20] That's fantastic. When I talk to applicators, one of the first things we do is break a colony down and they're always fascinated. Like, you know, the bees get moved in, they move out, but they don't know the moving parts of it or how it works - they’re always fascinated by it. Those two webinars before are really great because they really show how the risk assessment process in the US has overhauled substantially in the last few years. And there's a lot of elements to it. 

[00:24:49] Caydee Savinelli: [00:24:49] There's a lot of elements. I really think it's good because we're not only looking at adult bees we're also looking at the larval bees, which I think is important. But the first year is really [00:25:00] what we call the screening tier. So in other words, it says, "okay, this passes, no problem, don't worry." "This one, there's some potential problems." So we take it up to a higher tier, which is really the field effects. And to me being a field person by training understanding what goes on in the field is much more important than understanding what goes on in the lab. The lab sort of tells you worst case scenario, where the field is a reality. 

[00:25:22] Andony Melathopoulos: [00:25:22] Okay. We'll link that publication in the show notes. That's a great recommendation. You're providing recommendations that nobody's provided before. So this is really wonderful. 

[00:25:34] Caydee Savinelli: [00:25:34] I thought I could do that. 

[00:25:37] Andony Melathopoulos: [00:25:37] Well, the last question is, is there a pollinator species in particular that you count as a favorite?

[00:25:46] Caydee Savinelli: [00:25:46] You know, I was thinking about this yesterday and my first inclination was to go to bees and certainly I like some of those metallic green sweat bees, because they're very colorful and dynamic and everything. So with that thought, I thought let's [00:26:00] talk about some other pollinators. And I have a hummingbird feeder outside of my office I get to see all day and I also have a field camera that takes like little video clips. Yeah, but hummingbirds are amazing and hummingbirds are considered to be really good pollinators because as they're getting nectar from flowers, they're also spreading the pollen. So I am going to say one of my favorite pollinators is hummingbirds. 

[00:26:26] Andony Melathopoulos: [00:26:26] That's excellent. And you know, one thing we have not done and we have a good hummingbird expert at OSU - we have not done a hummingbird show and you're just reminding me it's time to do a hummingbird show.

[00:26:39] Caydee Savinelli: [00:26:39] Well, and you know, in the West you actually have more species, in the East coast we only have the ruby-throated hummingbirds. So we don't really have a diversity of hummingbirds, but I've been down to Panama where there's like so many, you don't even know half of what they are. Hummingbirds are really fun and amazing, kind of aggressive, you know, I see the [00:27:00] two out there they're fighting each other. I get to watch hummingbirds outside my office window all day long now being at home. So hummingbirds are my favorite pollinator right now. 

[00:27:10] Andony Melathopoulos: [00:27:10] Fantastic. Well, thank you so much for taking time to talk with us and I'm looking forward to the webinar later this week. 

[00:27:16] Caydee Savinelli: [00:27:16] Yeah, it's really been my pleasure. Thank you for inviting me.